Experiential Storytelling

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Miller_experiential_storytellingWhile perusing through my local Borders Bookstore on Sunday evening, I ran across and purchased a book I heard about but haven't seen:  Experiential Storytelling: (Re)Discovering Narrative to Communicate God's Message by Mark Miller.

I read through about a third of the book last night.  I find it intriguing and compelling as well as scandalous and disturbing all at the same time.  Some, just by the title alone, will judge the book as postmodernism's destructive work in the church.  Others will think these ideas are the key to speaking to a world changed by postmodernism.  I want to deliver some quotes for discussion here. 

Miller defines "experiential storytelling"...

- creating an environment that allows others to participate in the telling of a story through sensory interaction (p. 7)

On Experience...

What if we were to take our message and begin speaking the language of the natives?  Instead of telling people Jesus is the light of the world, what if we showed them the stark difference between light and darkness?

What if we removed all of the argumentative language, replaced it with beautiful narratives, and let people feel the power of the story?  Instead of trying to convince people to accept a list of spiritual laws, how about placing individuals in the story, allowing them to learn and interact with God's character? (p. 26)

A Jewish Teaching Story...

Truth, naked and cold, had been turned away from every door in the village.  Her nakedness frightened the people.  When Parable found her, she was huddled in a corner, shivering and hungry.  Taking pity on her, Parable gathered her up and took her home.  There, she dressed Truth in story, warmed her and sent her out again.  Clothed in story, Truth knocked again at the villagers' doors and was readily welcomed into the people's houses.  They invited her to eat at their table and warm herself by their fire. (p. 29)

On Story...

Stories address us on every level.  They speak to the mind, the body, the emotions, the spirit, and the will.  In a story a person can identify with situations he or she has never been in.  The individual's imagination is unlocked to dream what was previously unimaginable. (p. 33)

Quoting Annette Simmons...

Stories are "more true" than facts because stories are multi-dimensional.  Truth with a capital "T" has many layers.  Truths like justice or integrity are too complex to be expressed in a law, a statistic, or a fact.  Facts need the context of when, who, and where to become Truths. (p. 36)

Sermon vs. Story...

A sermon tells people what to think.  A story forces people to do the thinking for themselves.  It can feel dangerous because it allows for interpretation.  But on of the adjectives used to describe the Holy Spirit is "counselor."  Do we trust our people and the Holy Spirit enough to allow them to think for themselves?  Can we leave something open-ended, knowing the conclusion might not come until later that day, week, month, or year?  Can we allows people to own the stories?  Or do we do all of the interpreting and leave nothing to the imagination?

My believe is that when a story becomes personal and people begin to become unsettled and challenged by it, then they have been touched in a place where facts fear to tread.  It is a place so personal that it can spark and inner transformation. (p. 41)

Quoting Dieter Zander...

When you put your face next to an "A" string and begin to hum and "A"--that string will begin to vibrate.  The "D" won't, the "G" won't, but the "A" will.  Because it was created to vibrate with that tone.  The thing about the story--God's story--is that when it is told and applied well, and when it is supported in a sensorial way, something inside our heart starts to vibrate, regardless of whether we are a Christian or not, because we were created for our hearts to vibrate with that story. (pp. 42-43)

Buy it at Amazon.  Also, read my follow-up post on this book along with my take after finishing it.

Kevin Ezell Should Apologize

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I was so ticked last night that I couldn't even post on this. 

The Family Research Council (FRC) is holding an anti-filibuster telecast with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Al Mohler, Charles Colson, and Jim Dobson at Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky on Sunday, April 24.  Highview is a Southern Baptist mega-church pastored by Kevin Ezell where several Southern Baptist Theological Seminary professors and students are members.  They are calling this Sunday "Justice Sunday."

It seems that enough Christian conservatives are so frustrated with how some in congress are handling Bush's judicial nominees that they have decided to put together this event.  They are upset at how "people of faith" who intend to become judges are being persecuted.   President of the FRC, Tony Perkins, said, "We must stop this unprecedented filibuster of people of faith."

Some others don't see things the same way.  One of those is Joseph Phelps.  Joe is pastor of the more moderate (but still Southern Baptist) Highland Baptist Church in Louisville.  He wrote an April 21 guest editorial in Louisville's Courier-Journal called "A Tale of Two Churches," contrasting Highview and Highland and their different views of justice, though he admits they are following the same Jesus.

Highland and Highview both advocate on behalf of moral issues in the public square. But Justice Sunday has caused Highview to leap into the partisan political process, and to be associated with erroneous, alarmist assertions about filibusters which supposedly threaten people of faith. In doing so, they have moved beyond the realm of the church's resources and expertise and into a realm where churches are neither equipped nor permitted to go.

Highview and Highland are still linked as sisters by our witness to Jesus. Our differing paths make for interesting family reunions. But we can't give up, just as the larger culture of which we are but a microcosm, cannot give up. We are family.

In a recent Associated Baptist Press article, "Louisville pastor criticizes church for hosting anti-filibuster rally" by Robert Marus, Ezell responded this way (emphasis mine).

"I'm saddened that some of these pastors that really, evidently, don't have a lot to do spend time criticizing other churches," Ezell told Associated Baptist Press. "I would encourage him to spend time reaching more people -- his numbers would seem to indicate he needs it," he continued, presumably referring to Highland Baptist's Sunday attendance figures.

He also took issue with Phelps describing Highland and Highview as "sister churches" in the Courier-Journal article. "I would think we're more like distant cousins," Ezell said.

It's sad that "Justice Sunday" has become Ezell's excuse for a beat-down of a "distant cousin" over their attendance numbers (by the way, Highland has added more members in the last year an a half than many SBC churches have in attendance).  Mega-church arrogance and personality-driven ministry has reared its ugly head and said what we small church pastors have felt they might have thought all along: size does matter. 

Now, I truly believe Ezell is growing sorrier by the minute as he is surely receiving criticism from some wise and thoughtful SBTS profs, Al Mohler, and others.  He hasn't handled a volatile public issue with much grace, and I'm sure he'll learn from it. 

But there is absolutely, without question, no excuse for Ezell's comments.  However you judge the moderate theology of Highland or Phelps, Ezell has made a personal attack.  This is a church attack.  And regarless of his view on politics, filibusters, or even the relationship between Highview and Highland, Ezell should publicly apologize for his silly comments. 

Maybe brokenness over our struggles to love one another (on all of our parts) will show we are all still weighed down with sinful attitudes and actions, still needing forgiveness, and in fact more like sisters than distance cousins after all.  God help us.

For more:
Washington Post
Louisville Courier Journal
Lexington WKYT
Lexington Herald-Leader
KY Post
Associated Press

UPDATE:
Louisville Courier-Journal - various links concerning "Justice Sunday": Link 1 (specific to comments mentioned in my post), Link 2,  Link 3, Link 4, Link 5, Link 6, Link 7

Becoming a Man

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I have found Al Mohler's thinking on maturing into manhood very thought-provoking.  I've heard him speak on the issue of the problems of an extended adolscence before, and it was very good.  Now he has offered two articles on the marks of manhood: Part 1, Part 2.  Mohler writes,

This series represents my attempt to provide an answer that will beboth faithful to Scripture and applicable to the real-life challenges faced by men today. More urgently, it was good for me to think through this question and articulate these hallmarks as I seek to show my own son how to grow into biblical manhood. I am absolutely sure that there is more to be thought and more to be said, but this may help us all to see the challenges before us.

Not More, But Better

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Just when there seems to be a hint of a trail-head leading 'emerging SBC leaders' out of the SBC's denominational morass, we may find our feet plugged in the muck once again.

Jimmy Draper is the leader of Lifeway, the uber-resource for Southern Baptist publications.  He is also the one SBC leader who had enough guts to care about and facilitate talks with young SBC leaders.  In the mix is Lifeway's Younger Leaders Solutions board, which is an almost worthless (though noble-intentioned) place for emerging leaders to offer our 2 cents about the need for the SBC to change.  I've offered an alternative which is growing every day, Emerging SBC Leaders.

For the record, I am very encouraged that Dr. Draper has spent time with young leaders, opened his ears and heart, made an honest attempt, and so on.  I am encouraged by his concern, have nothing against him personally, and I look forward to meeting him at the SBC Annual Meeting in June.

That said, the gap between those emerging and those mired in the ways of yesterday is ever clearer as Dr. Draper has offered a new article on the gospel in Baptist Press.

Draper thinks we need a lesson in economics.

Evangelicals need a basic business lesson. Research shows that evangelicals are not supplying the Gospel in a manner that matches the public’s demand.

What is demanded by Americans?  Draper gives his opinion.

A recent MSNBC/Newsweek online survey asked readers the following question: “Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead after the crucifixion?” Eighty-one percent of those who answered responded “yes,”....It reflects other research showing that the population at large is searching for meaning in life.  

So, according to Draper, people's belief in the resurrection shows they are searching for meaning in life.  And churches are failing to supply the meaning of life to those who demand it.  Why?

Draper believes it's because evangelism isn't the highest priority for pastors.

Sadly, according to a previously released Barna Group study, fewer than half (46 percent) of the Protestant senior pastors surveyed listed evangelism and outreach as a ministry priority. Spiritual development finished No. 1 at 47 percent. (Sixty percent of Southern Baptist pastors place evangelism as their top priority).

Spiritual development is important, but it is not the primary purpose of the church....We’ve turned churches into comfortable country clubs for members when, in fact, the purpose of the church is to reach those who are not members. Evangelism is the proper expression of mature, or discipled believers.

I don't think Draper adequately shows that a cultural belief in the resurrection means people are seeking the meaning of life.  Honestly, I'm not sure what it shows.  It probably shows that most Americans are liars, or have cultural beliefs but not real beliefs, or are willing to go along with what mommy and daddy told them to believe.  I think he makes a tremendous leap here to make "supply and demand" seem plausible, but I don't see it.

But I do believe it's a biblical notion that God has made us for something bigger than the mirror, and therefore everyone is in some sense looking for meaning in life.  People are inescapably religious.  But sadly people are usually falsely religious because they reject the God of Creation for other things (Rom 1).  Let's leave that theological point aside and focus on those who are truly hungry.

Draper's answer for meeting this innate spiritual hunger is to avoid focusing on discipleship more than evangelism, and then do more evangelism. 

But we should never attempt to put evangelism against discipleship. Jesus didn't when he said in Matthew 28 to make disciples of all nations.  That means more disciples (evangelism, baptism) and better disciples (teaching/discipleship).  Evangelism and discipleship are organically connected vines, not puzzle pieces locked together.

But Draper seems to understand this already when he says, "Evangelism is the proper expression of mature, or discipled believers."  I think he realizes it's not less discipleship, but better discipleship that results in evangelism. 

And I think Draper's answer, that we need more evangelism, only hints at the problem.  Surely there isn't enough evangelism, but we don't need more bad evangelism.  We need more better evangelism. 

We need evangelism that doesn't see people as a demands to be supplied, but as image-bearers to be loved.  We need evangelism that is not first organizational, but organic and relational.  We need evangelism that is not about keeping a tally of distributed tracts (look for the tally at June's SBC), but about spending time shooting pool with sinners. 

It's no wonder that Draper and other SBC leaders are struggling to understand emerging generations.  He takes statistics and economic ideas and tries to paint the church as a failing business that needs to retool on the fundamentals of 'supply and demand.'  But emerging generations see things more organically. 

SBC leaders, please hear us.  We will not be professional pastors who are running a "supply and demand" business.  We want better disciples believing better theology and doing better evangelism through better families and homes and churches.

Draper told us that Jesus said in Matthew 9:37, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few."  No doubt, we need to pray for more laborers.  That's biblical.  But more of the same evangelism and discipleship we see today will never solve our problems. 

That is, in my opinion, a big part of what being an emerging SBC leader is.  The status quo is not acceptable.  Reformission is necessary and good.

McLaren and Religions

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Here's one of the worst things Brian McLaren has said according to many critics.  It's found in A Generous Orthodoxy.

I must add, though, that I don’t believe making disciples must equalmaking adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many (not all!) circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish contexts.

This is a key passage for the Kentucky Baptist Convention who disinvited McLaren from speaking at their evangelism conference (also here).

This is a key passage for Stand to Reason founder and president Greg Koukl, who after quoting the above passage in a blog post then writes...

"Be forewarned. The Emergent Church is the most theologically corrosive view/movement/trend in a long time. The Seeker movement and the "Laughing Revival" of the last decade pale in comparison. And it’s consuming millions, especially young people. We’ll keep you posted."

This is a key passage for Al Mohler in his well-traveled review of aGO where he appears to say this quote brings into question McLaren's commitment to Christian mission in the world.

What does Brian McLaren really mean in this controversial quote?  Here is an excerpt from a recent interview with McLaren.

In an interview last week with Kentucky Baptists' newspaper, The Western Recorder, McLaren suggested the controversy was mainly a semantic one.

"I'm not saying I don't care if people are Christians or not," he said. "I'm saying I want people to be followers of Jesus, but to be a follower of Jesus in some situations may not require them to affiliate with the Christian religion.

"This is a very well-known reality in missiology," he added. "Many Southern Baptist missionaries are building disciples in communities of disciples ... that are meeting in homes or other places, but they are not affiliating with the Christian religion and disaffiliating with their own religion.

"This is especially the case in Muslim countries. They're affiliated as followers of Jesus but for a whole number of reasons, they are not saying, 'I'm an affiliate of the Christian religion.'"

Noting that "there were followers of Jesus before the word 'Christian' was invented," McLaren said, "They were first called Christians at Antioch - so I think we've got a biblical case for people being followers of Jesus without having to use that word.

"The issue," he insisted, "is that people confess Jesus as Lord. I'm interested in helping people actively be disciples of Jesus as Lord."

Read the whole article (HT: Joe Thorn email)

McLaren isn't saying we don't need mission, or that we should let new Christians syncretize.  He is talking about public association among believers in certain contexts.  He is talking about what he thinks is best to be a faithful witness in certain contexts.

As people convert they become disciples, but they may not publicly proclaim their conversion through joining a publicly recognized Christian church.  I used to be on track to go overseas as an SBC missionary.  During that time I heard one young, theologically strong SBC missionary speak who works with Muslims.  I also followed up and talked with him personally after his speech, and then through email later on.  His remarks about new converts is almost exactly the same as McLaren's.

I encourage critics of McLaren to respond to his clarification.  I think it's an important issue because it's such a contested quote.

Andrew Jones to Don Carson

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Andrew Jones (aka TallSkinnyKiwi) has written an open blog post to Don Carson.  AJ felt he needed to bring some issues up before the publication of Carson's new book: Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church (looks like the publisher has tweaked the book title since last check).  I think AJ poses some great questions and says some things that fly in the face of the critics.

To note...

1. Contrary to critics, important leaders in emergent disagree on theology and ecclesiology, among other things.  Wow, so McLaren doesn't speak for all of emergent?  Shocking.  When are critics going to get this?
2. AJ admits, some emerging churches suck.  Yes, it's true!  Critics can easily find an emerging church that is adolescent, unwise, and immature.  But it seems the traditional church hasn't given us a good model to compare emerging churches to.

Missional Ecclesiology

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"There is particular urgency today for a missional ecclesiology to reclaim the profoundly eschatological character of the church's calling.  The theological reductionism of both gospel and church has been accompanied, over the centuries, by a great loss of that future tense of faith that should powerfully shape our present life and action.  In place of fruitless speculation about events that have not yet happened, we must focus on the certainty of our hope that enables us now to witness to Christ fearlessly and point away from ourselves modestly.  A missional ecclesiology will always be candid about its penultimate nature; the continuing conversion of the church will necessitate obedient and serendipitous re-visiting of all our theological formulae and propositions.  This does not mean that the gospel is not sufficient to the task; it means that the church lives with the open confession that its grasp of and response to the gospel is always partial, that there is yet more healing to be done, more conversion to submit to, more wonder to worship."

Darrell Guder, "The Church as Missional Community" in The Community of the Word, page 127.

And Their Faces Shone...

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The trip was a success.  It was the first of what may become an every-semester trip to Southern Seminary to talk to potential church planters.  While we aren't prepared to bring church planters to our suburban Chicagoland association yet, we hope to have a clear vision soon.  So our trip was more about getting ready for future trips than trying to fulfill a current church planting vision.  And we really believe that spending time at Southern has given us clear ideas on how things work and what we want to do.

Random and somewhat boring facts and observations...

It was pretty warm the whole time in Kentucky, but a little rainy Tuesday.  Severe thunderstorms were possible, but didn't come through Louisville.  Bummer.  The trees were far along and the flowering trees were beautiful.

We stayed at the SBTS Legacy Center, which is a beautiful, fairly new addition to the seminary.  Well done.

Southern needs to cut their grass.

While in Louisville, we were spent some time talking with fellow bloggers. 

We met up with Richard and Kyle for some food at the Irish Rover.  It was fish and chips and scotch eggs (a hard boiled egg wrapped in sausage and deep fried...whoa momma).  Conversation was on the local church and the emerging church.

John Mark hung out with us during our seminary cafeteria lunch, which was the time we used to talk with students interested in church planting.  Conversation was on family and the four seasons.

We had some rather tasty barbecue with Wes at Smoky Bones.  Yeah buddy, it was good food.  We couldn't get our waitress to date him.  Conversation was on church planting, the emerging church, blogging, not being able to sing, and all the girls we loved before (sort of).

We had lunch at Stevens & Stevens Deli on the way out of town with friend and Southern Seminary Associate Professor of Christian Theology, Steve Wellum.  Excellent food, great conversation, and we got a tip on a great new book (always a major plus).

I also had a brief word with friend and John R. Sampey Professor of Old Testament Interpretation, Dan Block.  He is headed to Wheaton College this summer and we are very excited about that. 

On TV after nightfall: ultimate fighting and some bad singing from a televised Baptist service in Louisville.

Joe was very sick on Monday, but a lot better by Tuesday.

We discovered that Louisville is basically a black hole of worthless wi-fi.  None at the Starbucks, poor service at other coffee shops (at least on Joe's computer), and unavailable wi-fi from the SBTS library.  Good to be home for real Internet access.  Sheesh.

Heine Brothers makes some good coffee, but their mocha isn't quite as good as Starbucks.

That's all I can think of for now.

Poetry: Brain Food

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Good article on the goodness of poetry for deep thinking.  We need to read more poetry.

Just a couple of poet suggestions (all guys, sorry): Dana Gioia, Wendell Berry, Ted Kooser, and Li-Young Lee.

Interrogations_at_noonWords
by Dana Gioia

The world does not need words. It articulates itself
in sunlight, leaves, and shadows. The stones on the path
are no less real for lying uncatalogued and uncounted.
The fluent leaves speak only the dialect of pure being.
The kiss is still fully itself though no words were spoken.       

And one word transforms it into something less or other—
illicit, chaste, perfunctory, conjugal, covert.
Even calling it a kiss betrays the fluster of hands
glancing the skin or gripping a shoulder, the slow
arching of neck or knee, the silent touching of tongues.

Yet the stones remain less real to those who cannot
name them, or read the mute syllables graven in silica.
To see a red stone is less than seeing it as jasper—
metamorphic quartz, cousin to the flint the Kiowa
carved as arrowheads. To name is to know and remember.

The sunlight needs no praise piercing the rainclouds,
painting the rocks and leaves with light, then dissolving
each lucent droplet back into the clouds that engendered it.
The daylight needs no praise, and so we praise it always—
greater than ourselves and all the airy words we summon.

- from Interrogations at Noon

The Missional Tim Keller

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I have been really rocked over the last few days by the words of Dr. Timothy Keller, the Senior Pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in downtown NYC.  I read some of the article below before, but this is a time in my life when they really mean so much more. 

Articles...
The Missional Church - pdf
Post-Everythings
Evangelism through "Networking" -pdf

Audio...
Vision Talks - especially 2004

For more, DJ Chuang has an excellent Keller resource list (though some links didn't work for me).

Mother Churches

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As the EC conversation continues to buzz more loudly in the ears of so many evangelicals, I think statements like this must be just as loud.

The unwieldy, old-fashioned church communities we've emerged from are like mothers--some supportive and helpful; others worn out, not well, depressed; all of them carrying a certain amount of history and baggage with them (because that's the price of growing up).  Of course we should grow up and do our generation's thing.  That's what parents want deep down.  But let's remember to be kind to the mother church--without her we wouldn't be here.

Maggi Dawn in Steve Taylor's The Out of Bounds Church?, page 56.

Where Was God?

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Roger_powell_pointing_1This is Roger Powell, Jr., or "The Rev" as he is called.  He is a 6-6 senior, licensed minister, and spiritual leader of the Fighting Illini basketball team.  On Saturday Powell prayed at halftime as Illinois took on Louisville in the NCAA semifinals. 

"I really did pray at halftime.  Seemed like it worked, I guess."  Illinois won the game 72-57, thanks in large part to the inspired play of Powell who played one of the best games of his college career with power dunks and three-pointers.  He ends the game by pointing to Jesus.

The final game was played Monday night.  The Illini played very poorly in the first half.  They have rarely played worse.  Illini fans, like me, sat slumped on the sofa unable to choke down another handful of peanuts into our upset stomachs.  Did they come all this way only to get schooled by a very physical and talented University of North Carolina team? 

The second half began and the Illini looked different.  They came back from as many as 15 points down to tie the game.  I went from slumped to jumping and running and screaming for every shot to go in. Whether you love the Illini or not, it was incredible basketball to watch.  Again, it seemed inspired.

Then, as I paced my basement and brushed off my wife's commands to calm down, I watched Illinois lose.  Yep, they lost.  Confetti showered down on embracing UNC players who were crying with joy.  Roger Powell, Jr. and the rest of the Fighting Illini exited the court and slouched in the locker room. 

And the big question should have been, Where was God?  His Word was scribbled all over Powell's shoes (Eph 6:15!).  His praises were on Powell's lips.  And His glory would have been proclaimed in every Powell interview and TV spot in the months to come after an Illini win.  But God didn't need an Illini win to show His Name is great.

I don't know Roger Powell, Jr., but I've read enough articles and heard enough interviews to know this guy really loves Jesus and has committed His life to Him.  I have no doubt in my mind about that.

But God's Name may fare better with a loss.  Until now for the Illini, God has been associated with winning and euphoria for things that should comprise very little places in our lives.  But Jesus' victory on the Cross wasn't all-good.  It took the end of His life for the world to truly live.  It took immediate defeat on the Cross to show He ultimately was victorious over a world of corruption and rebellion. 

There is no better time for Illini-loving Jesus followers.  A win might have been misconstrued as something brought on by a God that believed basketball was as important as die-hard Illini fans.  A loss reminds us that basketball is just a game and God is concerned for much more than the flight-pattern of three pointers.

As the game ended, I found no trace of Roger Powell, Jr. or his now famous finger pointing to Jesus.  I think all believing athletes need to be careful to not point to Jesus as the point guard of their team.  But if the glory goes to Jesus for a win, it must also go to Him for a loss.  And I think I've heard enough from Powell to know that he is still pointing to Jesus even after losing, if only in his own heart. 

Strangely, Powell may have just received one of the most precious gifts of his life: the chance to put the gods of basketball in their place.

Clubbing Seals: Love Your Clubber

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Sometimes when I'm preaching, an unplanned illustration comes to mind and I go with it.  These are often some of the most helpful thoughts for my own thinking, and I think for those listening as well. 

Last Sunday I let loose with one of those illustrations.  I was talking about perspective, how the way we perceive things dictates how we respond to them.  The idea of clubbing seals (that doesn't mean they are partying) seemed to show this pretty clearly.  Here are some of my thoughts based on this short, off-the-cuff illustration.

When we think of what it means for people to club baby seals for their fur, we often respond with great compassion for the seals and anger for those with the club.  Our response: "This is just wrong."  And I've recently learned that in some places they give out "hunting" licenses so people can experience killing a seal with a blunt object.  This rips my heart out.

But if we change perspectives (I've also written on this idea here and here) and take a moment to think before we respond emotionally, we just might find out that some people who are killing seals are doing it because that's the only way they know of to make a living and provide for their families.  Maybe there are really some people who are just doing the only thing they know to do to keep on living in this world. 

When we see seal clubbing from that perspective, we remember that life is hard for all of us.  We are all trying to put food on the table.  These guys are just like us.  Suddenly we see the world from their perspective and our compassion is fuller, more complete.  If we only work for justice with seals, we will miss working for justice for people who only know the life of the club.

I admit, solutions aren't easy.  But responding only to our first emotion will often just create more problems.  The situation is almost always deeper and more difficult than that.

Jesus' solution was to get in the middle of the problem (incarnation) and become the Solution.  Maybe when we start to think like Jesus, we will truly see how He could die for our sins and put Himself in our place when we are the ones holding the clubs.  And then we will see a world full of club wielding people in a different, more compassionate way.