Desiring God Audio

Here's the audio from the recent Suffering and the Sovereignty of God Conference from Desiring God (John Piper's ministry).  Thanks to Justin Taylor for making these available.

Suffering and the Sovereignty of God - John Piper
Listen   |  Read Manuscript

Interview with John Piper
John Piper and Justin Taylor
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The Sovereignty of God and Ethnic-based Suffering - Carl Ellis
Listen  |  Outline 

"All the Good that is Ours in Christ": Seeing God's Gracious Hand in the Hurts Others Do Us - Mark Talbot
Listen  |  Outline

Christ’s Grace and Your Sufferings - David Powlison
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Sovereignty, Suffering, and the Work of Missions - Steve Saint
Listen 

Suffering for the Sake of . . . - Joni Eareckson Tada
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The Suffering of Christ and the Sovereignty of God - John Piper
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Desiring God Conference Bloggers

Challies and CoffeeSwirls are live-blogging the Desiring God Conference on Suffering and the Sovereignty of God in Minneapolis.  I attended last year's conference which was excellent, and was offered the chance to blog the conference this year but had conflicting plans.  Very cool to be able to keep up with the conference through these blogs. 

I won't update links to all their posts, but here are the ones online so far.

Challies: Session 1, Session 2
CoffeeSwirls: Day 1 Thoughts; Piper/Taylor Showdown

Alcoholics & Abstinence

Alcohol_crop_labelAs I continue an unplanned series of posts on alcohol, I have some thoughts that are really unrefined, but ones I want to share and get some interaction on.  Nothing in stone in this post but our faith in God's mercy.

I wonder why we don't teach that God can work in "alcoholics" so that they can change and get to the point where they drink a glass of wine with dinner and not re-enter a lifestyle of abuse.  I know some of you will immediately think I'm trying to build a "law" that everyone must drink alcohol.  That's not what I'm saying at all.  Some of you are thinking "Why???"  "Why would you want to tempt an alcoholic to return to that lifestyle?"  Bottom line: I just think it's good for us to reconsider our cultural assumptions on addiction and filter them through what God says He is doing.  He is transforming us, and abstinence seems to be an anti-transformation mentality.

For example, we know that God has given a Spirit of self-control (2 Timothy 1:7).  So why do we assume an "alcoholic" (may help to question our terminology too) cannot gain self-control that is strong enough to overpower a tendency toward addiction?  We are new creations in Christ.  We have been given new desires.  We have new hearts. 

I know it might take time, and I know there are dangers.  But we don't live according to dangers, and we don't walk by sight.  We live by faith, and if I'm trusting God then I'm believing he changes people deeply and in sometimes shocking ways.

My point isn't to push people toward drinking after years of abuse.  I'm simply asking if we shouldn't teach that God can and does change people and that alcoholics can find themselves enjoying a brew with friends someday without getting drunk.  Sounds good to me.  Once again, it seems to be the most Scriptural view and one that trusts in the character and work of Christ.

Practically speaking, alcoholism is often born out of something else.  It can be to escape from responsibility, the pain of loss, and so on.  I know alcoholics who say that they only tend to get on a binge when they are around certain friends, or situations, or with their band members. 

Many times alcoholism is said to be something that "runs in our family."  It may be that you are more predisposed to be addicted to alcohol, but that doesn't mean you can't learn to enjoy it in a God-glorifying way.

I'm not recommending anything here.  I'm not telling addicts to find the nearest Liquor Barn and start nursing on cheap beer.  What I'm hoping for is a good dialogue on the spiritual understandings of addiction and on the Spirit's work of redemption and sanctification.

Sinclair Ferguson: NPP

Bill Streger (KaleoBill) has offered a very good quote from Sinclair Ferguson from his lectures on the New Perspective on Paul

I think it's written all over the way in which we do church today thatwe are far more interested in ourselves as individuals than in the life of the community. And if I were to spell out why I think that's true, I would lose friends. Everywhere. My own position is, I don't think a New Testament believer would begin to understand why we do church the way we do church instead of the way they did church. So, there are serious questions here. About the extent to which we are self-fascinated evangelicals - rather than God-centered and community-, fellowship-oriented. Has it never struck you that the New Testament almost nowhere tells you how to do evangelism? Almost nowhere tells you how to do evangelism. Why? Because it understood that being the church was to do evangelism. And our problem in our community - if I can explode for a moment - is that we don't do evangelism because we're not convinced at all - and often rightly we're not convinced - that our Christian community is really radically supernaturally different from the rest of the world. But they were so obviously radically supernaturally different from the rest of the world.

Humility: A Review

Humility_book_4I have been given the opportunity to review C.J. Mahaney's new book Humility: True Greatness before it is released.  C.J. is the founding and former (27 year) pastor of Covenant Life Church in Gaitherburg, MD.  He now leads Sovereign Grace Ministries full-time as they seek to plant and strengthen churches through their network.  He has written or contributed to several books.  He will be speaking at the Together for the Gospel conference in April of 2006 in Louisville, KY.

It was easy to decide to review a book by C.J.  First, I figured I'd buy and read the book anyway.  It's a good and neglected topic, and I have enjoyed his previous books.  Second, because I have had the opportunity to hear him speak live at least twice (maybe three times) and have always benefited from his humble boldness with the Word.  I have also listened to several of his sermons over the past few years on CD.  Third, some church leaders I know and respect think highly of C.J. as a person, a pastor and a leader.

The book is short, 137 pages (at least in my pdf version) including all the necessary pages for recommendations, title, etc.  It's divided into three themes: the need for humility, true greatness according to Jesus, and how to practically cultivate humility.  It's well organized and the direction of the book is clear.

In the first section Mahaney admits that pride infects all of us.  It's in our hearts squeezing out the space where our dependence on God should be.  I think he does an adequate job in very little space showing the problem of pride for all of us, and how it is so deeply rooted in our hearts and lives.

In the second section he turns to Jesus in Mark 9 and 10 as the disciples argue about who is the greatest.  Mahaney makes the point that Jesus doesn't kill their ambition, but redirected it so that those who want to be truly great will be slave of all. A helpful observation, and the foundation for all Mahaney says after it.

Mahaney defines "true greatness" as serving others for the glory of God.  He points out that Jesus gives us teaching on humble service, is himself the perfect example of this servanthood, but best of all He gives us His death.  Mahaney makes clear that we cannot escape the grip of pride, but must get divine rescue through the Cross.

In the third section Mahaney shines as he takes the biblical and makes it practical.  He spends the next few chapters explaining through some practical ways to cultivate humility and kill pride.  He has some general suggestions (like reflecting on the cross), advice for the beginning of each day (like starting with gratitude and seizing your commute for God) and for the end of each day (like accepting the gift of sleep by acknowledging that God intends sleep to prove how much we have to depend on Him).  He also gives suggestions for special focus (like studying sin and the attributes of God) and a few fun ones (like playing golf). 

This list is given in a simplified form at the end of the book for easy reference.  It's no surprise that Mahaney strongly suggests we all have our own lists on defeating pride so that we will be purposeful about it.

Mahaney believes humility is also cultivated as we seek to encourage others every day, as we invite and pursue correction, and learn to respond humbly to trials.  He has a chapter on each of these things.  He also encourages the read to leave a legacy of true greatness by preparing our kids to recognize true greatness and not just ordinary things that we call great.  He finishes the book with one last look at the Savior, which is Mahaney's Cross-centered style, and one worth imitating.

Here's my closing take on the book.

The one real weakness of the book is a lack of outward focus.  He defines humility (true greatness) as serving others for the glory of God, but really doesn't talk much about what that looks like.  The only chapter he really gives on this is on encouragement, and that is focused on words, not deeds.  The book is mostly about dealing with inner issues and disciplines that cultivate an attitude of humility.  I would have enjoyed seeing more interaction with the life of serving the defines true greatness.

I think Mahaney's chapter on inviting and pursuing correction is helpful on a very neglected idea.  If I refer to nothing else in this book again, that is a chapter I will be sure to reference for my own battle against pride.  It is a unique contribution from this book along with C.J.'s good list on cultivating humility. 

This is a small book. I'm looking forward to the day a publisher tells C.J. to dive in and go deep, but this isn't that day. So though this for some this may be the definitive book on humility simply because there isn't much on the subject in print, this is really only an introduction to the topic from a good Bible teacher.  That said, I think C.J. would agree heartily that the best books to cultivate humility are not books on humility, but books on the Cross, sin, Jesus, the doctrine of God, etc.  Thankfully, C.J. quotes from and recommends a number of good books to read throughout this book.  I can attest, having read many of them, that he points us to very good books for this life-long pursuit of true greatness. 

As a pastor I am always on the lookout for small, accessible and readable books on important topics for people who are not yet ready for longer and deeper books.  This is a very good one for that purpose.  I highly recommend it for most Christians as a good place to start their battle with pride.  I will be recommending it in my local church.

Temperance

Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words thathas changed its meaning. It now usually means teetotalism. But in the days when the second Cardinal virtue was christened “Temperance,” it meant nothing of the sort. Temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further. It is a mistake to think that Christian ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion. Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he wants to give the money to the poor, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying. One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons - marriage , or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning.

CS Lewis, Mere Christianity pp. 61, 62

(HT: Joe Thorn)

Joe Thorn on the Seven

Se7en_2Joe Thorn has started a series of posts on the seven deadly sins.  His first post on lust is really good, both practical and convicting.  Here's a snippit...

...lust boils down to a personal dissatisfaction with God. How?Lust is blind to the God who is supposed to be our greatest boast, our ultimate comfort and source of contentment. Lust craves everything else besides God and the things He has provided for us. It misses the gifts we possess in the light of the things we lack.

More good writing on bad stuff to come.

Update: Gluttony

Alcohol, Abstention and Redemption

Let's keep thinking through alcohol and abstention.

Generally speaking, both sides of the issue of alcohol agree that there is no way to prove biblically that Christians should abstain from alcohol.  I know there are exceptions (some of them in my inbox this week), but let's start with the premise that we can't build an air tight case for abstinence from the Bible.

The case is then often pushed to two areas (surely there are more). First, sometimes the case is made for a less fermented wine in the Bible or Welch's flowing at weddings.  Some people (I've become a magnet for some of them) will go to great lengths to explain how wine in the Bible had much lower alcohol content.  I've read long, rambling posts, discussion board threads, etc on this. 

I'm not convinced, but I don't think it really matters that much.  People in biblical times were getting drunk and so are people today, so who cares how much alcohol content there is in a drink?  There are abusers looking to abuse.  The biblical point doesn't change.  It's abuse that is the problem, not the alcohol content.  You can sip whiskey, mix the Captain with Coke, or whatever.  As long as you don't get drunk and drink for the glory of God, you are cool, biblically speaking.

So the argument for alcohol content, in my opinion, is a bit of a red herring.  It is off topic.  The biblical command remains, and is sufficient.  Isn't that great?!  It's sufficient whether we buy and drink a Smithwick's or a Seagrams 7.

The second thing the lack of biblical evidence for total abstinence does to the alcohol conversation is drive some to say that we live in a culture of abuse and therefore abstinence is a must in THIS culture.  But that's almost never really the point of those who argue this.  If it were, they would allow for alcohol consumption for our missionaries in other cultures where things are different.  But they don't allow that, which shows they really want to make an extra-biblical rule (legalism) for all of us. 

But let's give the benefit of the doubt, at least for the sake of the argument.  Let's say people with this position really believe it's about an abusing culture, and their inconsistency in application is out of their hands (denominational monetary pressures at work).  I get that.  And I understand this position and argued for it until a couple of years ago. In fact, I remember being at a Founder's Conference while in seminary and spending a couple of hours one night arguing my guts out with a Presbyterian guy about how everyone should abstain.  This guy *gasp* made his own beer!

I completely disagree with this argument for abstention now.  I could take the easy route and say I'd rather follow biblical rules than extra-biblical ones.  But even more, my reasoning is found in the Cross that created the Church.  The church is a redemptive community.  We live not only the experience of redemption (I'm redeemed/being redeemed) but also the works of redemption (I'm redeeming).  That's why our mission is both words and works, speaking and doing redemption.

And if we are working out our salvation through being redeemed and redeeming, then our response to cultural abuses is not to abstain but to redeem. That not only pushes us to maturity by teaching us how to eat, drink, and have sex to the glory of God (though it won't come easy), but it is also a witness to the world that God redeems.  The pervert throws away the pornography (abuse) and learns to love sex with his wife (redemption).  The glutton refuses to order a 5 piece fried chicken and fries meal (abuse) and learns to order a salad with light dressing instead (redemption).  The alcohol abuser stops drinking until drunk (abuse) and learns to stop after a beer or two (redemption). 

As long as we make the issue "abstaining," we will miss expressing and embodying redemption.  And I'm afraid the message we will send is that good things can be perverted beyond redemption.

Are You A Leader?

Kevin Cawley (Sufjan Stevens' Aficionado) has found a nice list (from Tony Morgan) on leadership that rings true to me. 

"Ten Easy Ways To Know You Are Not A Leader."

1. You're waiting on a bigger staff and more money to accomplish your vision.
2. You think you need to be in charge to have influence.
3. You're content.
4. You tend to foster division instead of generating a helpful dialogue.
5. You think you need to say something to be heard.
6. You find it easier to blame others for your circumstances than to take responsibility for solutions.
7. It's been some time since you said, "I messed up."
8. You're driven by the task instead of the relationships and the vision.
9. Your dreams are so small, people think they can be achieved.
10. No one is following you.

I find it interesting that people write out lists like these.  If all this list is good for is to remind leaders that they do all these things already, then it's wasted time.  So that can't be the reason.  If this list is simply to point out to non-leaders that they really aren't leaders, then I don't really think we'd spend so much time making lists because leaders by nature want to develop more leaders, not usually stop non-leaders.  I know these may be sub-strata goals, but not main ones.

I think these lists are to get true leaders out of the snares we get caught in where we lose track of vision, responsibility, risk, relationships, etc.  I think they are the products of leaders who want to encourage other leaders to keep their eye on the prize through continual refocus.  That's why #7, saying "I messed up," is in the list, because the list should produce redirected leaders, not just describe perfect ones.

What do you think?

Networking: Tom Nebel

Tom_nebel_1 I had the opportunity to have lunch with a strategic baptist leader up in my neck of the woods.  Tom Nebel is Great Lakes Baptist Conference (Baptist General Conference) We_plant_churchesAssociate Executive Minister for Church Multiplication, Associate Director of TeAMerica, and is the big cheese at WePlantChurches.com (Great Lakes Church Planting).  I got connected to Tom through some pastors at the Acts29 boot camp a couple of weeks ago.  Tom also brought a church planter named Gene in North Madison to meet with me.

We ate Mediterranean food on State Street in downtown Madison, WI and talked about churches, church health, church planting movements.  He wrote out a diagram explaining how churches and church leaders clash and/or mesh on the issues of pastor and vision and how momentum changes Big_dreams_small_places_1things dramatically.  Very helpful, and if my explanation doesn't make sense, I'm told it can be found in Tom's book Church Planting Landmines.  Tom gave me a copy of another book he wrote, Big Dreams in Small Places: Church Planting in Smaller Communities, obviously understanding my context in a smaller but rapidly growing suburb of Chicago.

The more networking I do with other visionary leaders, the more pumped I get about what God is doing all around us and through us.  Being a part of a church is so different than being a part of a movement of churches planting churches (I've written about this before).  I want to learn from them and encourage more movements and fewer monuments.

LibraryThing

LibraryThing is very cool.  Add your library with ease, up to 200 volumes for free or get an unlimited lifetime membership for $10.  Nice online resource.

(HT: JT, and a special hat tip to my greatest blogging friend of all time RB)

Leithart: Inebriation

I saw someone at iMonk's site link to this meditation by Peter Leithart.

I have no studies to back me up, but I dare say that removing wine from the Lord's Supper has produced an increase rather than a decrease in drunkenness. If wine is merely excluded from the Christian diet, it takes on an aura of mystery, of transgression. When we drink wine at the Lord's Table, we receive it as a gift of God, and give thanks for it. At the Lord's table, we are not drunk with wine, but we receive wine while singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord.

The central solution to the sin of drunkenness is not tee-totalism. The central solution, the solution of Scripture, is to enjoy the wine of this table as a gift of God, and to come to this feast of wine not to be drunk with wine but to be filled – to be inebriated – with the Spirit.

Nickel Creek: Why Should the Fire Die?

Nickel_creek_1_1Nickel Creek is brilliant.  Seriously. 

Nickel_creek_cdI have their first two CD's, which are fantastic.  Three years later they finally put out number 3, and I think it's their best.  These guys no longer fit clearly in a musical style, as if they ever really did.  The closest is bluegrass, but it doesn't take long to realize they blast any "country" or "bluegrass" stereotypes out of the water.  In my iTunes I classify them as "alternative bluegrass," and that's the best I can do.

Paste Magazine has a good article on them.  CMT has the Nickel Creek Studio 330 Sessions, which means they have four video clip interviews with the band and four live songs performed.  Fantastic introduction to Nickel Creek.

"When in Rome" is their first single.  Very good song.

Where can a dead man go
The question with an answer only dead men know
But I'm gonna bet they never really feel at home
If they spent a lifetime learning
How to live in Rome

"Jealous of the Moon" is by far my favorite.

Why don't you call me, I could save you
Together we'll find a God we can pray to
That'll take you by the hand

I hate to see a friend of mine
Laughing out loud
When she's crying inside
But you've got your pride

Starin' down the stars
Jealous of the moon
You wish you could fly
But you're stayin' where you are
There's nothin' you can do
If you're too scared to try

From Deconstruction to Kingdom Building

Drew Goodmanson has an interesting post that should give some perspective to emerging-type churches.

To make a Kingdom-impact on your local community and the world-at-large, you must move from Deconstruction to Kingdom Building.

[...]

If you are an emerging church, what is your identity? As I attend ‘postmodern’ or churches that would say they are ‘emerging’ they usually can tell me what they are not. We don’t have central leadership, we don’t sing old-school hymns, we don’t have traditional worship, we don’t…[fill in the blank]. In the long run, I don’t think you can rally too many people to this cause and anti-identity.

SBTS: Alcohol and Ministry Audio

The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has online audio from a forum on Alcohol and Ministry (right click and 'save as') or visit the resource section of the site (it's near the bottom).  SBTS president Al Mohler and theology school dean Russ Moore are in dialogue on the issue.  It's interesting to listen to, and it's more thoughtful than Jack Graham's article, but I think a very poor view of alcohol and ministry.  Listen for yourself.

I will quote at times and explain in my own words at other times.  I have taken care to be precise with quotes, but I can't claim inerrancy. :)

And let me start with this: if you want to discuss this in any detail or disagree with me, please listen to it start to finish.  Reading my quotes doesn't give a feel to the whole thing, but I can't do everything. 

Also, I like Al Mohler and Russ Moore.  They have a heart for the Church, the SBC, their families, seminary students, and even bozos like me.  So my responses are meant to be a response to the issues they raise and not directed at them personally. 

It's obvious the issue of drinking alcohol is coming under question by students at Southern.  At least 2-3 references are made to websites, weblogs, and bloggers.  I know some of those guys read my blog or have one of their interns do so (wish I could tell you a little email story).  I don't know if they mean me or not, but it doesn't matter.  The truth is, where there is open discussion you can often find growing error that should be corrected as well as the rediscovery of truth that should be embraced.  I think the discussion on alcohol on the web is freeing new generations to think biblically rather than traditionally or legalistically.  But it seems pretty clear that bloggers like me are being responded to in this forum.  So I think it's good to respond as well.

Okay, first, Mohler points out that the view that the Bible teaches total abstinence from alcohol is not biblically provable.  Good to hear that.  But then the rest of the talk is about showing how total abstinence from alcohol is best.

A bit into the forum, Mohler said...

We've all seen some of the websites and the weblogs and the kind of conversation that has been had about this, among people that we know, that have been, that are close friends.  Let me tell you that I find a great deal of immaturity reflected there.  It's all the sudden like we have a young generation trying to say, 'Hey we are so much smarter than our parents, uh, we are so much more mature and more liberated, we can enjoy these things, and now I'm going to recommend my favorite beer and my favorite wine to all of my friends.'  And frankly I think it's sad, immature, and it's showy.  It's the exact opposite of Paul's concern for unity in the church.  This kind of ostentatious display of liberty is an adolescent display.  And it's exactly what mature Christians should avoid.

Why is recommending a wine or beer showy and immature?  That smacks of arrogance and condescension.  I don't think he proved this point at all, and to call people immature without showing it is unhelpful ad hom.  Stick to the issues.

Moore and Mohler try to tackle the issue of whether or not their view is encouraging Pharisaism (about 3/4 through the audio).  Not very compelling.   Notice how they actually try to claim fundamentalism for those who don't abstain!  Mohler says...

And this is where sometimes fundamentalism, with its very restrictive list, forms a warped understanding of the gospel.  And I'll tell you, this is one of my main concerns, and I'll just speak from the heart, and it's one of my main concerns for this generation of students.  And so let me just speak paternally here for a moment.  My concern is that you have fundamentalism with a restrictive list of "don'ts" and what we are seeing is a new kind of fundamentalism, a fundamentalism disguised as liberty, which has a new list of "do's."  And it's nothing more than a reflexive, unthoughtful and I think unmotivated by love kind of response here, and I'm afraid it will wreck ministries in embryonic form.

I can assure you of this: if you are associated with the use of beverage alcohol, I think I dare exaggerate not to say that 99% of all doors of ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention will be closed to you.  And I do not believe that is an exaggeration.  And let me tell you why...you may think, 'That just shows high-bound and unthinking the Southern Baptist Convention is.'  Why should the Southern Baptist Convention or a local church take a risk?  Why should it be in the position of deciding whether this is a problem or not.  I mean, you have to understand, why would the church take that on?  So, I am very concerned about this generation, and that's one of the reasons why our integrity with the denomination, with our churches, requires that we not only have this policy, but that we talk about it, we teach it and we enforce it.

Where is someone demanding that people drink?  That would be fundamentalism of "do's," but I haven't read anyone with this position.  I think it just doesn't make sense, and is an attempt to get the harsh idea of fundamentalism off their back and put it on someone else.

Mohler is right about drinking and not getting jobs, but that doesn't mean the SBC position is right.  It just means they are very effective at getting local church and parachurch adherence to their extra-biblical legalisms. 

Russ Moore then continues in the same vein...

Dr. Mohler mentioned the weblogs that you often see (and so often I think this fundamentalism is exactly right) so often the message that is communicated is, 'Thank you Lord that I am not like my fundamentalist home church.'  And you can hear in this 'jabbing of the eye' the prayer of the Pharisee and it is very, very destructive.

True enough, that we all struggle to be the Pharisee.  Or maybe we should say, we all ARE the Pharisee.  Guilty as charged, and running to the Cross. 

But a wrong heart doesn't mean a wrongness on the issue of alcohol.  It just means they have taken it too far.  The Pharisees weren't always wrong in what they did, but in claiming their rightness in doing it.  This is just a non-issue on alcohol and distracting.  I can claim Mohler and Moore are Pharisees all day long (or liars, or whatever), but that doesn't mean they are right or wrong on alcohol consumption.

Closer to the end, Mohler told the story of going to lunch for a meeting with a group of evangelical leaders across denominational lines.  If anywhere, this is the place for a Christian to show generosity to those who aren't compelled as he is about the issue of alcohol.  But as a couple of leaders ordered beer with lunch, Mohler actually spoke up and asked a Lutheran pastor (friend of his) to not get a beer "so that sitting here in this Southern town where anyone can walk in and see this table, people do not then barrage me with phone calls associating me with drinking, which I'm not doing."  He finished the story, "I could not allow my own personal integrity to be questioned, I would of had to have left the lunch."

But Jesus didn't have this take on alcohol or His reputation, and accordingly had His personal integrity dragged repeatedly through the mud because of who he associated with.  Mohler seems to miss the point that alcohol isn't the point, people are.  His reputation and SBTS' reputation isn't the point, people are.  And when someone else's beer becomes an issue, there is something dramatically wrong.

Let me make this last point, because some (many?) will think this is such a secondary issue, and it isn't.  This isn't about alcohol, it's about legalism.  Alcohol is not an issue I will die on, but legalism of any kind is.  It's not freedom for alcohol I'm calling for, but freedom from legalism which is deadly.

Honestly, I don't claim to be free of extra-biblical legalisms.  I don't think I'm better than Mohler or Moore.  But I do think they are wrong on this issue.